----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Estall" <mikeestall@hotmail.com>
To: "Aron Garceau" <kynsfolk@adelphia.net>
Cc: "Steve Aikens" <steve@nmpcs.com>
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2001 12:39 AM
Subject: Re: Tiger Cub frame
Hello Aron,
Just as well that, by chance, I happened to have a look at Steve's website!
I hadn't been into it for many months and I picked up many additions to my
Register. Purely by chance I checked all the unknown items against the
factory records, discovered yours was a Comerfords Cub and sent Steve an
email to try and notify you. As you say, it arrived about an hour and a
half before you were about to chuck it out. How's that for serendipity?
Object lesson #1 - NEVER THROW ANYTHING AWAY!
I'll keep my eyes open for the engine and let you know if..! When you've
had a chance to read about it in my book contact me again if you need
further info - although I put just about everything I could find out about
it in the book. If you do find the engine, please let me know.
All the best for now,
Mike----- Original Message -----
From: "Aron Garceau" <kynsfolk@adelphia.net>
To: "Mike Estall" <mikeestall@hotmail.com>
Cc: "S t e v e A i k e n s" <steve@nmpcs.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2001 1:42 PM
Subject: Re: Tiger Cub frame
Mike,
Thanks, that is some great information. I tracked down the fellow who I bought it from and this is what he had to say...
"I bought it with some other racing bikes which a Middlebury College student imported from England around l970, it was clearly Comerford with aluminum gas tank and oil tank I believe, engine and transmission together. My son had them in his shop, told em he would save for me when he moved. But in fact he was on the edge of bankruptcy, everything went in a hurry and the engine and tanks disappeared. I was furious at the son of a bitch (my first wife) and tried to track down the motor, but no luck, and after many tries I gave up."
I told Steve that the frame addition by the gas tank was explained to me as a "piece of crap Oil-In-Frame" alteration and I must say that your e-mail came only 1 hour and a half before I was about to throw it in the metal dumpster. I have tracked down a BSA Victory tank and now am about to start a search for the engine. I will probably put a couple of adds in the paper around here hoping that the missing engine is still around. I've just ordered your book this morning from Amazon.uk.com and expectantly await its arrival (expensive little bugger ;-) ). My hopes are to either get this up as close to the way it should be however I don't know how hard that is going to be. Any help would be appreciated (for histories sake). I'll take some better, close up pictures of the frame and send them off to you, complete with attachments.
Thanks again,
Aron----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Estall" <mikeestall@hotmail.com>
To: "S t e v e A i k e n s" <steve@nmpcs.com>
Cc: "Aron Garceau" <kynsfolk@adelphia.net>
Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2001 9:26 AM
Subject: Re: Tiger Cub frame
Hello Aron,
If you have a copy of my book, ('The Triumph Tiger Cub Bible', from Veloce
Publishing Plc, 33 Trinity Street, Dorchester, Dorset, England, DT1 1TT,
Telephone - 01305 260068. FAX - 01305 268864, email - veloce@veloce.co.uk
or website www.veloce.co.uk), may I refer you to pages 105 and 106.
Here the origin of the Comerfords Cub is described in detail and there are
pictures.
Basically the 'model' was a standard T20M Mountain Cub delivered to
Comerfords for sale as such but later converted by Gordon Farley at their
premises. Gordon Farley was an ex-works Triumph trials rider and Comerfords
an English Triumph main agent and strong supporter of competition riding in
the UK. Sixty T20M machines were converted during 1967/8 and were sold as
replicas of Farley's own Triumph 'works' machine. It had a 21" front wheel,
a BSA Victor alloy petrol tank, additional frame bracing, a 64T rear wheel
sprocket, and a TR20 carburetor. Various other alloy parts were optional.
As you probably know Tiger Cubs can make a very good vintage trials machine
and the Comerfords Cub was a ready-made model with lots of special 'goodies'
on it. It has become, over here, a much desired model fetching more money
than an ordinary trials Cub, although they come up for sale very, very
rarely. My Register of Machines lists only sixteen survivors plus two
frames, including yours, and three engines.
It sounds from what you say as if the frame has been in the USA for many
years. I wonder how it got there in the first place if it is indeed a
Comerfords Cub? Just in case this is a wild-goose-chase can you please
check that the frame number is as reported on Steve's website - T20M 6411?
Just to confuse things further the standard of record-keeping at BSA was
something less than satisfactory. I have many times received notification
of machines that are not listed in the factory records. BSA was also not
averse to using the same serial number on more than one machine, sometimes
at the same time or sometimes a year or more later! For example, there is
in Colorado a machine which is one of two that shared the same serial
number. Both were T20M models, one went to Comerfords here in England in
1967, later becoming a Comerfords Cub and the other was sent to South Africa
in 1968. However, there is no duplication of number for T20M 6411, (but
that does not mean to say that there was not another machine with the same
number, in which case it would not have been one converted to Comerfords Cub
specification, and it may be that the frame you have is from this 'other'
machine)!
I can think of no way of distinguishing a Comerfords Cub frame from the
ordinary Mountain Cub frame as all the modifications were done to the cycle
parts. I cannot tell from the photo you sent and in any case I have never
seen an original Comerfords Cub in the flesh! All the ones on my Register
have been much modified over the years and I have not been able to obtain
good, detailed photographs of an original Comerfords Cub. When researching
my book some years ago I spoke to several people who worked at Comerfords,
including Bert Thorne who had been their competitions manager. No one had
any photos!
So there you have it. The frame which bears T20M 6411 was, according to the
Triumph despatch books which I have on microfilm, from a machine delivered
to Comerfords in November 1967. Comerfords own records show this bike as
being converted and sold by them as a Comerfords Cub on 2nd November 1968,
bearing the English registration UPC 4F. I don't know what else I can tell
you - sorry! Occasionally a matching engine turns up on my Register and if
anyone tells me they have your engine I will let you know.
Mike Estall
----- Original Message -----
From: "S t e v e A i k e n s" <steve@nmpcs.com>
To: <kynsfolk@adelphia.net>
Cc: "Mike Estall" <mikeestall@hotmail.com>
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 1:30 PM
Subject: Fw: Tiger Cub frame
Good morning Aron and Mike.
Aron, I received the great news you find copied below, from Mike Estall
this morning and wanted to get you two together. If you have Mikes book,
'The Triumph Tiger Cub Bible', as he notes, your Cub frame T20M 6411 is
detailed on pages 105/6 and is one of the 'Comerfords Cubs'.
If you do not have 'The Triumph Tiger Cub Bible', I urge you to get one.
If you have trouble finding a copy, order it using the ISBN 1 901295 44 3
or the UPC 36847-00144-5. It is available from Whitehorse
http://www.whitehorsepress.com/OnlineCatalog/Sections/ProdImgs/TTCBIMG.HTM
Further, Mike has literally ALL the information about Cubs and has an
information and dating service that will completely detail the life of
your frame. I should think you would want the history on your frame and
would suggest you contact Mike. You can reply to him here or use his
details - as found on the Cub Site - below. I have used his services and
recommend them.
Mike Estall (VMCC Marque Specialist)
24 Main Rd Edingale
Tamworth
Staffs
B79 9HY
England
Mike, thank you very much for the note. I'm pleased my objective of
sharing information on the Cub Site has helped locate and document such a
rare - previously lost - part of our Cubs history.
I created an Internet page for Aron at http://www.cubsite.com/Aron/Aron.htm.
I would like to ask you both to make sure I am copied in your email
correspondence, so I can publish the information on Aron's Internet page.
Thanks again Mike. I know that Aron must be absolutely thrilled to hear
this great news.
--
I don't suffer from insanity......I'm enjoying every minute of it.
http://www.doomed.com/sanity/sanity_1.htm
Steve Aikens, Clovis, NM
steve@nmpcs.com